Talk:Abraham Lincoln
Did a little clean up from the Redem-Baiter era. TR 07:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC) :Good move. God did they ever do a half-ass job. Turtle Fan 10:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC) In OTL, Lincoln only ran for president as Republican caditate in 1860. In 1864, he ran for the Union party. Lincoln as VP candidate in OTL When? TR (talk) 16:38, October 28, 2015 (UTC) Lincoln sought the nomination for VP in 1856, the first national election where the Republicans were in the running.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 19:44, October 28, 2015 (UTC) ::Not so; some of the bigwigs tried to draft him, but he turned it down to focus on Douglas's Senate seat. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:54, October 28, 2015 (UTC) :That's better than Goldwater, anyway. TR (talk) 19:48, October 28, 2015 (UTC) Rivington Men Ditto here. They are referred to as Rivington Men so that link remains. ML4E (talk) 15:09, March 30, 2016 (UTC) Deletion JS should be moved. Rest of article should stay. TR (talk) 05:01, August 10, 2016 (UTC) :It's interestingly jarring to see one of the all-time great autocrats corrupt one of the all-time great democrats, but that dissonance can be accomplished by reading the reference page as easily as this. Turtle Fan (talk) 07:08, August 10, 2016 (UTC) GotS Election Results While I don't object to giving the general results from the 1864 election, I see no purpose in listing the states Lincoln carried. Anyone interested can click on the election link. ML4E (talk) 19:38, August 10, 2016 (UTC) :Agreed. That's why I put up that chart. TR (talk) 20:53, August 10, 2016 (UTC) ::I apologize for any confusion or inconvenience that I might have caused when I added the twelve states the Lincoln carried in the 1864 Presidential Election in The Guns of the South. However, it's nothing new to articles. The Calvin Coolidge article explains all the states he carried in the 1928 Presidential Election in Southern Victory and I don't think anyone has complained about that. Also for the 1864 Presidential Election in GofS, the John C. Frémont and George McClellan articles have the number of states they both carried, although it probably because Fremont only won Kansas while McClellan won only Delaware and New Jersey. -- 15:50, August 11, 2016 (UTC)Jacob Chesley the Alternate Historian :::The 1864 election is the only election HT went into elaborate detail on. No other election has the appendices that HT gave us in GotS, so the 1864 article is pretty in depth. Early on, we were pretty flexible about listing the info we had in articles about the candidates, since HT didn't give us that much info in his other elections. :::However, since we are doing more to build up the election articles, I'd actually have no problems with removing lists from candidate articles; we can say Coolidge carried what he carried on the 1932 election page just as easily. It won't be complete, since HT doesn't list every state Coolidge carried, nor does he give us electoral vote. :::I do think there is value in pointing out that Fremont and McClellan weren't precisely successful in their bids and keeping their wins with them. TR (talk) 16:27, August 11, 2016 (UTC) Story Character Templates I just moved the GotS down to the paragraph space between the second and third paragraphs. This gives enough space to right justify it on the page. The downside is it looks a little messy when the page is edited. What do you thing? ML4E (talk) 19:14, October 20, 2017 (UTC) :I think we are each using different viewing methods. So long as everything isn't bunched up, I'm fine. TR (talk) 18:33, October 21, 2017 (UTC) Fort Pillow Is Lincoln referenced in FP? Since it's an OTL ACW story it's probably not enough for a story subsection but it should go in his hist refs and in President of the United States#Other Presidents.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 00:48, December 21, 2017 (UTC) :It's a story set during the OTL of Civil War. Of course there are references to Lincoln. Not one is substantial enough to justify calling attention to it in the historical references page, and it sure isn't worth pointing out on the POTUS page. TR (talk) 00:54, December 21, 2017 (UTC) ::I disagree, I think it worthy to say "Lincoln is referenced as the incumbent POTUS in FP, set in OTL" and leave it at that.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 01:02, December 21, 2017 (UTC) :::There is no substance in that phrase. Leaving it out says the same thing in fewer words. TR (talk) 01:30, December 21, 2017 (UTC) :::This. Also, it's fucking blindingly obvious. Everyone knew who the incumbent POTUS was in the OTL ACW. You couldn't miss him. Turtle Fan (talk) 07:45, December 21, 2017 (UTC) :::Ditto. Its a historical novel not AH so its not needed unless they do something within the story. ML4E (talk) 00:38, December 23, 2017 (UTC) Lincoln as the Socialist Candidate in 1884 in Southern Victory? Do any of you guys think it could have be possible for Lincoln to have been the first Socialist Party candidate in 1884 in Southern Victory assuming he's still alive? The party had just formed two years prior and was just entering the mainstream by the time the next election occurred. The only thing we know from the election is that James G. Blaine lost the election in a landslide to a unnamed Democratic candidate as a result of the Second Mexican War. Is it possible for Abe Lincoln pull a Martin Van Buren 1848 or Millard Fillmore 1856 and run on the new third party? It should be noted that Lincoln would have been 75 years old in 1884 assuming he was still alive and the series never mention when he died (after 1882 but before 1914). Does anyone think Lincoln would have been the first Socialist candidate in 1884 or would the party chose someone younger like James B. Weaver, Alson Streeter or Davis Hanson Waite? --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 22:45, August 19, 2018 (UTC) :No. Lincoln was one of the most hated men in the country. I doubt he could even achieve the level of "beloved cult figure" the way Gary Johnson has in the modern Libertarians or Jill Stein has in the Greens. There would be no value in nominating him whatsoever. TR (talk) 22:56, August 19, 2018 (UTC) :::I agree with this. I also don't see him having any appetite for such a run. I got the distinct impression he was joining SPUSA as a consigliere. Turtle Fan (talk) 06:45, August 21, 2018 (UTC) ::No then? Alright TR, who do you think the Socialist nomination in 1884 would go to assuming the party has fully taken off by the time the election occurs? I place my bets on Alson Streeter. I wish HT had gone more into the Southern Victory presidential elections. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 15:00, August 20, 2018 (UTC) :::I have no opinion. TR (talk) 15:12, August 20, 2018 (UTC) ::::Someone very radical; they wouldn't be moderated till the 1920s, when they turned into New Labour overnight. Beyond that, I have no opinion either. Turtle Fan (talk) 06:45, August 21, 2018 (UTC) Trying to Kill Lincoln in The Guns of the South According to the Nate Caudell article, it mentions that in The Guns of the South that Corporal Billy Beddingfeild tried to assassinate him after the Confederacy captured Washington City during the Second American Revolution but was stopped by Caudell. Would this be worth adding to the article? Weirdly, Billy Beddingfeild doesn't have an article yet. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 17:50, June 7, 2019 (UTC) :Yes. In fact, it's probably more useful here than it is at Caudell's page. No page for Beddingfield isn't such a surprise--GotS is still a comparative blindspot. TR (talk) 17:57, June 7, 2019 (UTC) :I have just slightly edited the Caudell article. While it technically would have been an assassination, what happened was as they surrounded the White House, hot tempered Billy got angry at what Lincoln was saying and pointed his AK-47 at him. Caudell pushed the barrel down and told Beddingfeild he couldn't just shoot a President the way he had shot surrendering black soldiers (mentioned earlier in the Caudell article). Beddingfeild settled down and then Lee arrived defusing the situation. It would have been a spur of the moment killing rather than a planned assassination. ML4E (talk) 20:58, June 7, 2019 (UTC) ::That's much as I remembered the scene once JCC mentioned it (and incidentally, I'm fairly certain I read it before JCC was born). I would not characterize that as an assassination either, though my main objection to the use of the word is that the White House was a live combat zone at the time. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:21, June 8, 2019 (UTC) :::Does Billy Beddingfeild deserve his own article created or should we put him on the Minor Fictional Characters in The Guns of the South article? I haven't read the book in full so I don't know if he played a major role other than the stuff mentioned above. I just don't wanna create an article for a minor characters to only have it deleted shortly afterwards if you guys know what I mean. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 18:45, June 9, 2019 (UTC) ::He has his fancy rasslin' match with Benny Lang, shoots dead a couple of surrendering black soldiers during the battle of the Wilderness, and threatens to shoot Lincoln. He may have had one or two other appearances too. So while not a major character, he is certainly appearing enough times and doing enough things to justify having an article for him rather than a Minor Char entry. ML4E (talk) 17:59, June 10, 2019 (UTC) :::His name is Billy Beddingfield not "...feild" and I am pretty sure he is a historical figure. Just about all named soldiers of the 47th North Carolina in the book are, but the project of cataloging them seems to have been put on hold indefinitely because HT got their info from an obscure source which is not easily available, so it is difficult to make an OTL section for them. Another such character is Dempsey Eure. :::Also, as TF pointed out, Lincoln was standing in a live combat zone, much as in "Must and Shall." Calling Billy's attempt an assassination doesn't work.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:20, June 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::Well sorry Matthew that the name was misspelled on the article I found the name. It's not my fault. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 13:15, June 12, 2019 (UTC)